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<!--Generated by Squarespace Site Server v5.0.0 (http://www.squarespace.com/) on Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:42:46 GMT--><?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="/universal/styles/feed.css"?><rss version="2.0"><channel><title>SRR - Comments</title><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/</link><description></description><copyright></copyright><language>en-US</language><generator>Squarespace Site Server v5.0.0 (http://www.squarespace.com/)</generator><item><title>Brian comments on Jack in the Box Follow-UP - Q&amp;A</title><author>Brian</author><pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:59:08 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/6/30/jack-in-the-box-follow-up-qa.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1598431</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>Amen, brother. I like my analogies &quot;well done&quot;...and you definitely know how to serve one up to the fullest.</p>]]></description></item><item><title>chrizzle comments on Jack in the Box Follow-UP - Q&amp;A</title><author>chrizzle</author><pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 05:41:02 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/6/30/jack-in-the-box-follow-up-qa.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1593207</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>Well said. It goes to show that God is working in many ways through his people, including the varied stylistic outpourings of worship unto His name. And the church should make the focus Christ crucified, the gospel. </p><p>To further the conversation, I think that musical style does communicate to people about God and does have a part in communication of the gospel. The form has a function. An example is the classical, or chamber pop style you are employing in your church - there is a technicality and artfulness to it that does communicate the complexity and splendor of God. </p><p>I do wonder though if there is a larger detriment to some style choices than is at first evident. Some churches out there are settling for stale tacos. Maybe a style was popular in the 70’s, but now it unintentionally colors the vibe of the message, kind of like having a kitchen decked out in orange with an avocado refrigerator tells dinner guests that you’re out of touch (unless you’re going for a retro kitchen, of course). </p><p>In some churches, perhaps the food on the menu has been sitting under the warming light for too long. They made a mean burrito back in the day, but now it’s a little old. Perhaps that staleness comes across more in performance and arrangement than it does musical style. For example, a classical style can be fresh if it is performed passionately and with a worshipful mindset, versus the choir going through the motions, feeling like “oh well, we’re singing this song for the billionth time.” As you pointed out, there can be touches to traditional music, done in a chamber-pop style that makes sense in the context of your congregation, which also yields freshness. </p><p>My main “beef” (food pun intended) is to those who cloister themselves inside a narrow band of a musical style that unnecessarily dates the congregation, the context, and castes a shadow onto the relevance of the message. Take a song being done in a 70’s ballad style for example. Potentially, the message being picked up by someone is “this truth is a little out of date, maybe not relevant to my modern context.” It may lead some to a potential quick dismissal of a group as being fuddy-duddy, irrelevant to life-at-hand. To them I say sing to the Lord a new song. </p><p>On the other hand, someone could also listen to a well performed traditional piece and think, “Wow this has roots beyond my current cultural context.” And that person could get an overwhelming sense of God working in His people through all of history. </p><p>Perhaps there is a distinction to be made between outdated and timeless; outdated being something tired and feeble in communicating rich truths, and timeless of course having good connotations. Take the song Amazing Grace – a song that is rather timeless and difficult to make less impactful due to style. </p><p>Does it matter that musicians understand how to be excellent in their craft? How much has this concept been lost in our churches these days? I have often heard something like “it doesn’t matter what it sounds like, what matters is the heart” as almost an excuse for bad art. I think the heart of course does matter most, as well as extolling the truth of the gospel in truth through music. However, if a musician remains in the confines of an outdated style (versus timeless), or shoddy performances for too long (versus well-played), does this actually do harm to the communication of the gospel? </p><p>And I do agree with your point about musicians needing to get in the game and mix it up, including myself (though sometimes it is not an easy question as to where to get involved). Imagine if many more Christian musicians lent a hand to the work at hand, had a heightened view of the art, and were writing new songs, playing modern styles, as well as bringing freshness to traditional songs and styles. <br/></p>]]></description></item><item><title>chrizzle comments on The Church is Not Jack in the Box...and other stuff</title><author>chrizzle</author><pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:12:09 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/6/27/the-church-is-not-jack-in-the-boxand-other-stuff.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1584299</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>So, if I follow your line of reasoning, it would seem to imply that style does impact your ability to reach a certain group of people. If you make a burger, then you will draw the people that want a burger. </p><p>And thus, the Lutheran church is indeed catering to a certain group of people. I guess it comes down to accepting that a certain range of people will be drawn by any given style. Let's say the Lutherans decide to stick with burgers. They will always draw the burger-lovin' crowd. </p><p>(Though, Lutheran style is hardly a burger in terms of popularity. Perhaps it is more akin to sushi - a food that is, afterall, more traditional, complex, high-art.) </p><p>Some points I would be interested to hear your thoughts on: </p><p>1. In the case of the Lutheran church, does this “marketing” translate to drawing mostly established families (and folks with grey hair), that are more conservative and traditional? What does a Lutheran church like Grace do if they decide to reach out more to your average hip-indie person Hillcrest/Normal Heights/North Park? Do they expect that person to be able to latch on to a style that even their grandparents regarded as traditional? If the answer is no, then the Lutheran church will have to resign itself to catering to its &quot;market&quot; of people, as the market continues an inevitable decline. While forcing a musical style that was popular hundreds of years ago, why not also expect people to show up in ruffled lace and hose? </p><p>2. If it is so important to stay with a given style, where is this concept found in Scripture? </p><p>3. Didn’t the Lutheran church start b/c it was bucking tradition to a certain degree? Why shouldn’t semper reformanda apply to reviewing and updating style as well? Was there a peak in terms of the ideal style of music a few hundred years ago, that somehow will never be eclipsed? Why is classical style from the 1600’s somehow more church-worthy than any style that came before or after? Furthermore, what kind of God would we have if there are no Telecasters in heaven!? I would hope that Tele’s are there along-side a full orchestra. </p><p>4. The problem with the style of the Calvary service is the underlying theology. Where does the person who likes certain aspects of the Calvary style worship but wants Reformed content go? </p><p>5. Wouldn’t the ideal be for a church to exhibit a range of styles that is true to who is in the congregation? Perhaps that’s why many churches have opted for having both a traditional service and a “contemporary” service. Perhaps even more ideal would be to vary the style in the same service… one week it’s rock/pop, another week it’s indie, alt-country or traditional. That way, those that like traditional music will get their fix, the rest of the congregation will be exposed to the rich tradition of music in Christianity, and all will not be a slave to tradition at the expense of alienating the uninitiated. I guess it depends on each congregation making that choice based on who is in attendance. The menu of styles may need to be broadened a bit, but in ways that are complimentary. If you’re serving burgers, it’s appropriate to offer shakes, maybe some fries, or try mixing it up with curly fries, or having different options on the burger (guacamole anyone?). Or in the case of sushi, look at one of your favorite places, Sushi Itto – they do a fusion of styles that keeps the “sushiness”, but incorporates other options that draws the downtown crowd. </p><p>6. How can it make sense to “mandate” style across a denomination of churches no matter who is in the congregation, or where that congregation resides? I think that is not healthy. </p><p>-chrizzle </p>]]></description></item><item><title>Kudzu Fire comments on Ministry Moment by Luke Morton</title><author>Kudzu Fire</author><pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 10:22:13 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/5/27/ministry-moment-by-luke-morton.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1525392</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>You give hope and encouragement. Bless you for that.</p><p>Yours is the hardest task. Loving the unlovely.</p><p>It is I believe, God's will and the very manifestation of the Lord.</p><p>Love and God's Blessings to one and all!</p><p></p>]]></description></item><item><title>Brian comments on Sally Morgenthaler Rethinking Worship Evangelism?</title><author>Brian</author><pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:50:14 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/3/13/sally-morgenthaler-rethinking-worship-evangelism.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1359868</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, Brad; although I'm not completely satisfied with viewing Sunday simply as &quot;gathering&quot;. It is in fact THE reoccurring event in the life of the church as she weekly reminds herself in word and sacrament that our sins are forgiven. The caveat is that this is NOT the kind of event that our culture is looking for, and in fact, not the kind of event that even most Christians are looking for. If I want entertainment, I'll go to a rock show or the movies where the quality will be much better. But for worship? Give me the apostles doctrine, the prayers, the bread and wine, and the fellowship with God's people for encouragement (Acts 2:42). I think you're right - evangelism can occur in the Sunday service (and does) as people enter and see Christians pouring forth their hearts in prayer, song, and in listening to God speak to them. They are drawn to this and they don't need the faux entertainment. One of the things missing often in this conversation is the Holy Spirit. If we believe in a sovereign God who is going to draw sinners to himself, and the tool is the gospel as applied by the Holy Spirit, then we should be content to rely upon his work rather than our own as we come faithfully week after week.</p>]]></description></item><item><title>brad andrews comments on Sally Morgenthaler Rethinking Worship Evangelism?</title><author>brad andrews</author><pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:42:20 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/3/13/sally-morgenthaler-rethinking-worship-evangelism.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1358739</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>I might add that my impression of Sally's evolution is not so much that the version of worship evangelism she described in the book doesnt' work, but that many people gobbled it up as another way to grow your church. Many people thought the book was about how to make your worship 'evangelize' or bring or more people - church growth talk. </p><p>Really, the book was about how deep, rich, theological, authentic worship by believers is what truly evangelizes. And that the church growth, seeker-sensitive thing reeked of inauthenticy and faux-worship, isolated from culture.</p><p>To me, her recent comments is more of a reframing of or rather, an extension of what she was saying in WE. As both the wider culture AND the Christian sub-culture has changed, so has she in finding a way to talk about worship that takes into account the day we live in, which is mission or cultural engagement outside of the corporate worship time may be our only hope to invite folks into our corporate worship time.</p><p>She is quick to say too that we must resist the tempation to use mission for this purpose alone. In fact, much like Dan Kimball, she say this missional engagement away from church should be the norm and the corporate worship time should be looked upon as just a 'gathering' not an event.</p><p>Her impetus seems to be that in the 80's &amp; 90's, she saw people would still come to church to see the 'show.' They aren't coming in like that anymore.</p><p>So she says church as we did it in the 80's &amp; 90's isn't going to work. Mission, primarily, is going to come before belonging which will come before becoming. And she is excited about this paradigm because then worship truly becomes 'liturgy' - the work of the people.</p><p></p>]]></description></item><item><title>Luke Morton comments on Leadership Issues in Music Ministry - Post 1</title><author>Luke Morton</author><pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:29:04 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/2/29/leadership-issues-in-music-ministry-post-1.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1343354</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the pastoral intensity of this post. I was in a miniaturized version of the scenario you talk about some years ago.  What did I do?  Long story short, I ended up leaving on thankfully decent terms.  But I've got to tell you, to be asked to change things (songs, instrumentation, ethos, etc.) cuts to the very core of my identity (oops, now I have some idolatry to confess).  Seriously though, we're talking about some of the most embedded expressions of an artist's heart.  In hindsight I think I could have been more intentional about both communicating to the pastor my convictions about worship in general and out of this giving him a vision for transcending the ephemeral preferences by way of nurturing creativity in our fellowship.  In other words, I wish I would have said, &quot;Let's foster among our people a proactive, participatory, anti-consumerist spirit that won't settle for passively receiving whatever comes off the CCM conveyor belt.&quot;  If a church could cultivate this sort of imagination I think it could avoid many of these ride-the-latest-worship-wave dilemmas.  I believe this would also be attractive to many coming through the door on Sunday morning, maybe even particularly the unbeliever. </p>]]></description></item><item><title>Peter comments on Parlor Session Chord Sheets are Finally Up!</title><author>Peter</author><pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:54:55 +0000</pubDate><link>http://www.semperreformandarecords.com/semper-reformanda-records-blog/2008/2/1/parlor-session-chord-sheets-are-finally-up.html#comments</link><guid isPermaLink="false">118127:1056098:comment/1258850</guid><description><![CDATA[<p>woohoo!!!  Thanks for the work, guys.  </p>]]></description></item></channel></rss>